An Evolutionary Crisis Leads to An Evolutionary Birth with Carolyn Baker, Ph.D.

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Without a doubt the exploding global crisis of climate chaos is disrupting the social, political, and economic structures of global culture. Humanity is poised on a threshold that could be described as a global dark night of the soul. This global crisis is not asking us to simply “make things better” or invent new ways of living. It’s demanding that we surrender to a transformation so radical that we become a new variety of the human species. In this deep dialogue we explore an effective path forward as we take on the challenge for a new humanity to emerge from these turbulent times. Baker says we are being faced now with a predicament in which we are being asked to perceive it as an assignment rather than an affliction. We’re addicted to happy endings so we need a deeper kind of hope such as “Mystical hope” which is, in Carolyn’s words, “[I]nextricably connected with one's inner world and not external outcome. Mystical hope is a commitment to meeting life as an assignment to be completed, rather than an obstacle to be removed.” She, and her co-author Andrew Harvey, feel it is a time for sacred activism, which is a marriage between spirituality and activism, saying, “Sacred activism incorporates all of our work with spiritual practices that help us not only take care of ourselves, but to be more dynamic, and more empowered as we do our work in the world and for the world.” (hosted by Justine Willis Toms)


Carolyn Baker, Ph.D. was a psychotherapist in private practice and a college professor of psychology and history. Now through her webinars, podcasts, live workshops, books, and articles, as well as one-on-one life coaching, Carolyn is touching the lives of thousands to assist them in deeply adapting and becoming resilient in the face of the unprecedented changes confronting humanity. She works closely with Andrew Harvey for the Institute for Sacred Activism.

Carolyn Baker is the author of:

  •  Undaunted: Living Fiercely into Climate Meltdown in an Authoritarian World (Apocryphile Press 2022)
  • Radical Regeneration: Sacred Activism and the Renewal of the World (co-author Andrew Harvey) (Inner Traditions 2022)

 To learn more about the work of Carolyn Baker go to:

 Topics explored in this dialogue include:

  • What is the etymology of the word catastrophe
  • How we must connect the dots of our present predicament not as an affliction but as an assignment
  • Why we must become sacred activists
  • What did wisdom leader, Margaret Wheatley, say in her book Perseverance
  • Why being either an optimist or pessimist blinds us by the need for certainty rather than how can we be useful
  • How these challenging times can be compared to a caterpillar going into liquid form in the cocoon on the way to becoming a butterfly
  • How the best way forward, despite looking without illusion at a present situation, is constantly choosing doing what is right and good
  • What is Justine’s definition of God that involves a reciprocal field of co-creation with divine intelligence
  • Why is the process of grieving the planetary losses important
  • How we are planetary hospice workers
  • Why Shoshana Zuboff says we are living in an invisible concentration camp of data and algorithms
  • How sacred activism is a marriage between spirituality and activism
  • Eldership, whether someone is old or young in age, is cherishing wisdom above intellect
  • Hear the Poem by Margaret Barkley, “Feeling Him Close” from book of poetry Ribs that Justine shares 

Host: Justine Willis Toms   Interview Date: 2/17/2023   Program Number: 3782

Music Playlist

From Album: Call of the Mystic
Artist: Karunesh

Opening Essay: Track 01 For the Joy of it All
Music Break 1: Track 01 For the Joy of it All (cont)
Music Break 2: Track 01 For the Joy of it All (cont)
Music Break 3: Track 01 For the Joy of it All (cont)