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This deep dialogue explores the shift from traditional economic metrics like GDP to regenerative economics, emphasizing interconnectedness and living systems. Fullerton and Cox discuss the need to move from extractive to exchange-based economies, highlighting the importance of right relationships and resilience over efficiency. They argue that current economic models, based on Newtonian physics, are flawed and must evolve to reflect living systems' principles and how our current economic measurements focus on quantity over quality. The conversation also touches on the importance of community and place in economic decision-making, advocating for localized, sustainable practices over global monocultures. (hosted by Justine Willis Toms)

Bio

John Fullerton is the founder and president of Capital Institute, a nonprofit organization dedicated to transforming finance and economics to serve life and the planet through “Regenerative Economics”. In 2001, he walked away from a two-decade career at JPMorgan, where he served as Managing Director and oversaw capital markets, derivatives, and investment businesses globally, including acting as Chief Investment Officer for Lab Morgan. LLC. Now, besides his work at Capital Institute, Fullerton is a member of the Club of Rome and currently serves on the Board of Directors of the Savory Institute, dedicated to regenerating the World’s Grasslands. He’s the author of several books including: Regenerative Economics: Revolutionary Thinking for a World in Crisis (2025 New Society Publishers)

Faye Cox is the founder of Hourbooks Press, a small independent publisher that creates short books—each designed to be read in about an hour. Hourbooks is dedicated to sharing essential knowledge that fosters positive change in the world. Cox has a Master’s degree in English Literature from the University of Oxford, and has two decades of leadership roles in systems change design.

Faye Cox and John Fullerton are the collaborators on:

• Regenerative Economics: Creating Conditions for Health & Abundance on a Living Planet. (Hourbooks Press 2025)

Topics explored in this dialogue include:·  

• How quantum physics reveals the interconnectedness of life
• Why there is a need to reconsider how we measure economic growth and the limitations of GDP as a measure of economic success
• What led to Fullerton's removing himself from the world of finance and Wall Street
• Why we must replace neoclassical economic models based on Newtonian physics with a living systems approach
• How the example of the exchange between trees illustrates right economic relationship
• What is the scalability of regenerative economics and the need for investment in resilient systems
• Who is Bob Ulanowicz and his theory of a window of vitality in living systems having a balance between resiliency and efficiency
• Why we must revision our way of making things so they don’t end up in a garbage heap
• Why honoring the place we live not only includes the geography but also includes the social structures

Host: Justine Willis Toms    Interview Date: 10/3/2025   Program Number: 3851

Music Playlist

From Album: Wave Hands Like Clouds

Artist. Buedi Siebert

Opening Essay: Track 3 Waterplay
Music Break 2 : Track 3 Waterplay (continued)